UK BOINC Team Forum

Explanation:

[sale price]
{future price}

Future price happens in 3 days.
Sale price happens in 12 days.

EG some products are already in a sale, and will therefore get more expensive in 3 days. Others are not in a sale, but will be in 12 days.

If you have never heard of Aliexpress, it's basically the Chinese Ebay owned by the largest Ecommerce provider in the World, Alibaba.

All prices include free P&P.

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Full details of all the deals can be see here: https://wuson-tech.aliexpress.com/store ... 23d6IiGfEY

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£154.35 [£144.58]
(mobo)



£1,028.30 [£802.08]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 2x coolers, 32gb ram, 1050ti)



£489.29 [£476.91]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 32gb ram)



£499.52 [£466.22]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 2x coolers, 32gb ram)



£622.68 [£592.31]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 32gb ram)



£716.73 [£690.51]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 64gb ram)



£661.28 [£644.75]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 2x coolers, 32gb ram)



£611.15 [£603.41]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 64gb ram)



£673.75 [£656.47]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 2x coolers, 64gb ram)



£658.12 [£493.59]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 2x coolers, 32gb ram)



£547.27 [£533.23]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 2x coolers, 32gb ram)


£948.41 [£806.15]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 2x coolers, 32gb ram)



£975.31 [£858.27]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 64gb ram)



£772,42 [£763.83]
(mobo, 2x cpu, 32gb ram)



[£1,108.22] {£1,071.81}
(mobo, 2x cpu, 64gb ram)



[£908.51] {£956.32}
(mobo, 2x cpu, 32gb ram)

Hi Chris,

Given the issues I'm having with my Natex board, I might be interested in just a new mobo...and then I can swap CPU's, coolers and RAM from my Natex board onto one of these?

So, are you thinking of buying a job lot and then we can share them out between any interested parties ?

regards
Tim

The mobo is LGA-2011 so everything should swap over just fine.

I only posted this so others could see what recent dual Xeon mobo deals were available.

If you remember the reason we bought as a collective was to minimise P&P, but in this case the postage is free.

Personally I stopped running V1/V2 Xeons about a year ago due to the TDP relative to the newer V3/V4 Xeons.

Although saying, I might grab a mobo when its in the sale as £144 is a pretty good price; however my 2nd Thread Ripper arrives today so I am not in a rush to spend more money on CPUs atm.

Just did a bit more research and people should be aware that these mobos are only dual ranked memory, not quad.

chriscambridge wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:50 am Just did a bit more research and people should be aware that these mobos are only dual ranked memory, not quad.

Hi Chris

From what I understand, SINGLE ranked memory is better than DUAL and DUAL is better than QUAD ?

https://www.oempcworld.com/support/singlevsdualram.html

I'll have to go and check and see what SIMM modules I have !!

regards
Tim

From what I believe the higher is better, which is why more modern systems have more; the latest being Oct (8) mode.

However it is my understanding that the difference between dual (2 sticks) to quad (4 sticks) is not a massive difference.

The CPU and mobo dictate which type of ram, dual/quad and speed, you require; yours should work fine as the CPUs are the same.

The only difference is they would run in dual mode not quad due to the mobo.

I'm no expert on ram but I think this is correct, I am sure mr woodles can explain further.

Hi Both,

You're both right

Tims quote is referring to how sequential accesses from a single RAM stick are done (one set of DRAM chips then the other) which is slower as the second access needs to be set up before the data can be read. A single set of DRAM modules on the RAM stick can send data from consecutive addresses without having to be set up again. The number of banks quoted.

Chris is referring to the number of RAM sticks the CPU can access in parallel. As the interfaces are separate, the address for the next read from one stick can be setup at the same time as data is being read from another stick. The number of channels quoted.
If channels are the same or greater than ranks then no more can be gained.

If addresses are not sequential (as usually the case with multiple cores in the same package) then the number of ranks doesn't matter as each access needs setting up independently anyway. More channels are still better due to the overlap.
It gets better with more accesses (typically, more cores): So as far as ranks on the module, the less the better, as far as channels from the CPU, the more the better.

Hope this helps, shout if it doesn't make sense.

Mark

Hi Chris,

I've had a quick look at some of the prices for those bundles.

Going by the differences between the bundles it seems that they're charging between £38.60 and £175.99 for a couple of EVO 212 coolers. you can get them new off UK EBay for £25 each.

32 gig of RAM costs between £94.95 and £202.89. Again, from UK EBay, 4 * 8Gb 1600 memory is £90

Their 1050Ti adds an extra £367.02 onto the price, UK EBay has a Gigabyte1050Ti OC for £110

I don't think their bundles are worth it generally although there are a few that stand out.

2670 V2 + 64G is being offered at £611.15, Chinese board + EBay CPU and memory would be £622.35 - save £11.20 with the bundle.
Add two coolers, bundle is £673.75, separately is £672.25 - £1.50 extra.
2680 V2 + 32G + coolers is £661.28, separately is £654.25. - £7.03 extra.
2697 V2 + 32G is 908.51, separately is £892.35 - £16.16 extra.

Those are the only bundles I'd go for but of course, you do get the added convenience of not having to buy all the bits separately although you would still need HDD, fans, case, PSU. And maybe you'd be getting new parts rather than used? The listings don't mention whether the CPUs are new or not.

My pick for a standalone cruncher would be all individual bits:
Motherboard @ £154.35
2 * 2660 V2 @ £45
32G RAM @ £90
2 * EVO212 @ £49.90
Generic 250G HDD @ £10
Corsair CX450 @ £39 (the setup should run at ~300W, get a bigger PSU if you're adding a GPU)
Generic case with fans @ £30
Total of £463.25 for 40 cores at 3Ghz. Similar sort of price that the dual 2670 Natex setups were that we built previously but now with eight extra cores

Or top of the range, swap the 2660 V2 for 2697 V2 - £558 more for 48 cores at 3.5GHz .... although I think two of the 2660 setups would beat it in performance (and price)

You would need a GPU to set it up (I have a Radeon X1300 that I got for £2! Free delivery as well ) but as a pure cruncher? Not needed, log in remotely over the network.

Mark

To be honest I was kind of thinking the same, the best deal out of all these is the mobo.

Personally I would go for the mobo, and then 2x E5-2680V2s and RAM bought from Ebay.

Although the E5-2697V2 are pretty nice CPUs also, but less cost effective than the 80s in terms of price/freq.

Yes, the motherboard is a great price.

Are the 2680s worth an extra 60% cost just for the extra 20% clock speed (performance)? The 2660s are ridiculously cheap at the moment.

I still reckon two of the 2660 V2 setups will easily beat a single 2697 setup and be cheaper. More power (watts) though and more space.

I guess it comes down to personally choice and requirements; I have limited server rack space (so higher freq is better), and I also want to keep an eye on resale value (more valuable the better). But then I also have to take into consideration actual cost which is why I picked the 80s over the 90s and 97s.

CPU Boss is helpful in highlighting the difference in CPUs.

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-E5-2 ... E5-2660-v2

E5-2680V2 vs E5-2660V2

Much higher clock speed - 2.8 GHz vs 2.2 GHz - More than 25% higher clock speed
Significantly higher turbo clock speed - 3.6 GHz vs 3 GHz - More than 20% higher turbo clock speed
Much higher Maximum operating temperature - 82°C vs 75°C - Around 10% higher Maximum operating temperature
Much better overclocked clock speed (Air) -3.38 GHz vs 2.39 GHz - More than 40% better overclocked clock speed (Air)
Much better overclocked clock speed (Water) - 3.49 GHz vs 2.2 GHz - Around 60% better overclocked clock speed (Water)

Agreed that it's faster, I still don't think it's worth the price premium though although I can see where you're coming from with space and resale requirements.

As you say, personal choice, I have plenty of room and don't tend to resell anything (that's why I've got so much junk laying around )

I have gone back to using the server rack so space is critical atm.

after my bad i9 experience 500 quid for 40 cores to add to my small farm would be nice. from a purely number crunching POV which system setup will provide best VFM?

The best money for value deal is probably the one Mark mentioned; if you wanted to spend a bit more then you could upgrade the Xeon E5-2660s to either 70s/80s/90s/97s.

Mark where did you see 2x 60s for £45? I can only see 1x for £100 ish.

Hi Neil,

Without building each setup and testing it, it's hard to tell but going purely by the number of cores and clock frequency, the dual 2660 V2 comes out on top.

The 1650 is 27% faster but has 40% less cores and is 11% more expensive - 0.69 VFM
The 2670 V1 has 20% less cores for 15% more cost - 0.73 VFM
The 2670 V2 is 10% faster but costs 42% more - 0.77 VFM
The 2680 V2 is 20% faster but costs 58% more - 0.76 VFM
The 2690 V2 is 20% faster but costs 84% more! - 0.65 VFM
The 2697 V2 has 20% more cores, is 17% faster but costs more than double (220%) - 0.63 VFM.

The 2660 V2 system I listed above is actually the cheapest complete variation I could find. Sure, some of the other CPUs are faster/have more cores but I don't think that justifies the price increase. In all case, all the other components are the same, only the CPUs change. If you can source the better CPUs at a cheaper price then the numbers will obviously change.

Bear in mind that it depends on getting second hand CPUs at the right price as that's where most of the cost is. I found some 2660 V2s at £45 which is a bargain for 10 cores / 20 threads, the other 10 core CPUs were all over £140.

You don't need more than 32 Gig of RAM unless you're going to be running 40 of the really big NFS tasks, most Boinc WUs only use a few MB of RAM. You don't need EEC RAM, normal DDR3 will do. The bundles sold are for PC3-12800 (1600) RAM but the CPUs and the motherboard will support upto PC3-14900 (1866) My prices are for the 1600 RAM as I was comparing it against the bundles.

Also, being dual CPU motherboards means you only need to buy one CPU, one cooler and half the memory to have a working system. You can add the rest when you feel like it.

Now the disclaimer. I've been building systems for well over thirty years and have probably built more than a hundred in total. I'm perfectly at home digging through the depths of the BIOS, hacking Windows/Linux files, soldering components onto the motherboard or squeezing incompatible hardware where it doesn't want to go. With most of the components I listed previously, you're not going to get technical support, you may not get ANY support. It's unlikely you'll be able to return anything and get a replacement in less than a couple of weeks.

Having said all that, it's fun and I like doing it

Mark

chriscambridge wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:58 pm The best money for value deal is probably the one Mark mentioned; if you wanted to spend a bit more then you could upgrade the Xeon E5-2660s to either 70s/80s/90s/97s.

Mark where did you see 2x 60s for £45? I can only see 1x for £100 ish.

Hi Chris,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeon-E ... :rk:1:pf:0

£45 each, two available, vendor will accept slightly lower offer if buying both

Mark

EDIT Ah, just noticed that they're V1s I'll have to do the sums again No wonder they came out on top.

OK, a quick re-check and with the proper prices for the 2660 CPUs, any of the 2660 / 2670 / 2680 options look very similar value for money.

The 2660 V1 is 32 cores @ 3.0 GHz for 463.25
The 2660 V2 is 40 cores @ 3.0 GHz for £623.25
The 2670 is 32 cores at 3.3 GHz for £533.25
The 2670 V2 is 40 cores @ 3.3 GHz for £661.25
The 2680 V2 is 40 cores @ 3.6 GHz for £733.25

All within about 5% of each other for value for money.

Sorry for misleading everyone.

Having checked, the original setup is still good value for money even with the V1 chips. 20% less cores than the 2660 V2 but 24% less cost so I've put it back in as an option.

All clock speeds are the turbo values but my Xeons happily run with all the cores maxed out.

Mark

what price did you find for the 2680s? about £160 each?

Hi chris,

I had the 2680 V2s @ £180. I only had a quick look.

Mark

If you want a laugh, check out the current retail cost of yours and Tim's E5-2670V1 CPUs..

£1,099 each processor!

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/intel-x ... e-115w-cpu

That's ridiculous! you can get them new off EBay for under £160! - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DELL-Intel-X ... :rk:1:pf:0

... and used for £80 - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeon-P ... :rk:1:pf:0

I was thinking of selling them until I looked at the real prices

Even cheaper if you use Aliexpress!

£67.90

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 5cc7Qq7iXf

So I could sell one to Scan then buy another 16 to replace it?!

What they would argue is they sell boxed retail versions, where as all these others are tray versions. Not that there is any difference in functionality.

OK, I'll put it in a box for them

so funny..